Different countries, same goal: hydrogen research in Norway and Japan

At the first H₂science conference in June, we got to speak to Vigdis Olden (SINTEF Industry) and Hisao Matsunaga (Kyushu University) about hydrogen research in Norway and Japan, the challenges of transporting hydrogen in pipes, and how the two countries are collaborating to increase our knowledge of hydrogen, and grow the next generation of researchers.

Vigdis leads HYDROGENi’s Material Integrity work package (WP4.1) while Hisao is a member of HYDROGENi’s Scientific Committee.

What hydrogen ambitions do your respective countries have?

VIGDIS: I’m a technical person, so the strategic part is not my area of expertise here. But Norway has an ambition to deliver large volumes of hydrogen to Germany by 2030, and this relates to my field, which is structural integrity of the pipelines that are going to transport this hydrogen. So, I hope that we are able to convert the needed volumes of natural gas to hydrogen, maybe also with contributions from green hydrogen, and use our existing pipelines that are currently transporting natural gas to transport hydrogen instead.

HISAO: Hydrogen is very important as an alternative to fossil fuels. Do you know how much energy Norway produces compared to what it consumes? It’s between 700% and 800%. This means you are exporting a lot of energy to other countries. You’re in a very fortunate situation. On the other hand, do you know the percentage in Japan? It’s only seven percent. That means Japan imports a significant amount of oil, coal and natural gas, and even some uranium for nuclear power – nearly everything. That’s why we, as Japanese, need to work very hard on new energy solutions.

Another important issue is energy security. We import many resources from abroad, but if something happens, for example in the Strait of Hormuz in the Middle East, oil imports could be disrupted. Japan would quickly find itself in a difficult situation. Hydrogen could serve an alternative energy resource in the near future.

After achieving carbon neutrality by 2050, we should primarily produce energy from natural resources – wind and solar power. This is why hydrogen is crucial as a secondary energy medium for Japan.

You both work with hydrogen and how it interacts with materials. What are the key challenges that need to be considered when it comes to hydrogen and materials?

HISAO: Hydrogen is the smallest atom, and it can easily penetrate materials, leading to degradation. This phenomenon is known as hydrogen embrittlement. To ensure the safety of infrastructure and components, we need to account for hydrogen embrittlement in strength design. However, this phenomenon is challenging to fully understand because it is influenced by various factors, such as hydrogen pressure, temperature, loading conditions, and material type. Additionally, its microscopic mechanism is still not completely understood. That’s why we need to continue fundamental research.

VIGDIS: We will probably never be able to completely get rid of the challenge of hydrogen embrittlement, but we need to understand more so we can design infrastructure that can withstand hydrogen exposure as much as possible and have a long life. That goes for instance for the choice of material and the design of the components that are exposed to hydrogen.

Can we reuse natural gas infrastructure for hydrogen or do we need entirely new infrastructure?

VIGDIS: We are not yet at the point where we can say a definite “yes” regarding the reuse of existing pipelines, but we are investigating this possibility through projects researching vintage pipeline materials, together with Gassco and Equinor and other industry partners. DNV are also putting in a major effort to test vintage pipeline materials as well as developing a Recommended Practice for reusing natural gas pipelines for hydrogen transport. A lot depends on the results from ongoing projects, including the HyLINE project, and the work that we do in HYDROGENi.

HISAO: I agree with Vigdis. In our studies on the hydrogen embrittlement of pipeline steel, including vintage pipelines, we haven’t found any reason that would prevent the use of these pipelines for hydrogen transport. Therefore, I believe we can use them, if we appropriately account for hydrogen embrittlement properties.

VIGDIS: Yes, we must understand more of how hydrogen interacts with materials, and once we have a better understanding, we can help define the limits for design and use.  A good interaction with industry partners is necessary in this work. They know the operating conditions, what they should deliver and need feasible solutions, and we are assisting by developing knowledge and putting it to use. For instance, how should we test the pipeline materials to be sure that we get the information that is the most relevant for designing and reusing pipelines?

Does Japan also work closely with industry on targeted research?

HISAO: Yes, we are about to start a national project on pipelines as well. In Japan, we face an additional challenge: earthquakes. So, we need to understand what happens to hydrogen pipelines after seismic activity and incorporate this knowledge into domestic codes and standards.

VIGDIS: That’s a specific challenge for Japan: you have the earthquakes, we have the pipelines lying at the bottom of the sea, which comes with another set of challenges. But Japan has come much further than Norway in addressing the influence of hydrogen gas on materials, as you have been pursuing the hydrogen society for a long time.

HISAO: Yes, we started 18 years ago.

VIGDIS: In Norway, we’ve also been looking into the topic of hydrogen embrittlement together with the industry for many years because hydrogen can result from both corrosion and cathodic protection on a metallic structure at the bottom of the sea. So, we have tackled the hydrogen embrittlement topic in relation to oil and gas for a long time but these challenges are somewhat different compared to pressurised hydrogen conditions.

In what areas can Norway and Japan collaborate, and where can Japan come with expertise and where can Norway come with expertise?

VIGDIS: We have had the bilateral H2NINJA project for several years now. It’s funded by the Research Council of Norway to facilitate cooperation between Norway and Japan. I remember when we wrote the proposal, we were describing what we were just talking about; Norway has the possibility to share the knowledge we have on metals exposed to hydrogen from the sea, whereas Japan has more experience with pressurised hydrogen.

HISAO: Yes, SINTEF has strong expertise in pipelines. They are working on properties under cathodic protection, as well as basic mechanisms and simulations. Meanwhile, at Kyushu University, we are studying the strength properties of materials in high-pressure hydrogen gas and accumulating knowledge and experimental data. Therefore, we can be strong partners in the pipeline project.

We began our collaboration with the support of the Research Council in 2019, which continued for four years. Recently, at the end of 2023, we launched the sequel to the HyLINE project: HyLINE 2. At the same time, we are also collaborating to encourage young researchers by exchanging students. So far, I have received four students from NTNU, and I hope to send a second student to Norway soon.

VIGDIS: Yes, we had one Japanese master’s student here last year. And we still have some funding for student exchange left. So, the collaboration includes  joint projects, information exchange between researchers and student and PhD-exchange.

HISAO: Yes, the research outcomes from these projects are important. However, nurturing young researchers for the next generation is even more crucial.

If there’s one thing that you want people to know about your research area, what would it what would it be?

VIGDIS: Hydrogen is not dangerous if you ensure the correct safety measures, as you also do when handling, for example, petrol. We must be cautious, but we mustn’t be overly pessimistic. With the right choice of materials and design, we will be able to reduce the risk of hydrogen leaks.

HISAO: Educating people is very important. For example, once when we were conducting some experiments using hydrogen at the university, my wife told me that her friend had said that if an accident happened in my laboratory, it would create a one-kilometre crater on campus. This is a complete misunderstanding.

Another example is that one day we were discussing the possibility of self-injecting hydrogen at refuelling stations, like we do with gasoline at gas stations. And one person said: “Oh no, this is not a good idea because what would happen if someone visited a hydrogen station with the intent of causing an explosion? It’s very dangerous, we shouldn’t allow that.” But then another person replied: “Well, if you wanted to do that, why not do it with gasoline at a gas station?” Gasoline is even more dangerous. Hydrogen diffuses easily – it disperses into the air, so it’s not as dangerous. Such misunderstandings happen sometimes.

VIGDIS: Yes, and there are some misconceptions about hydrogen due to historical events, like the Hindenburg disaster. Knowledge and education are a key here, to increase the population’s understanding of what hydrogen is and how it interacts with materials, and how we can avoid explosions through safety measures.

HISAO: Yes, and in Japan, we had the Fukushima explosion, which involved hydrogen, so people are understandably a bit scared. When we built nuclear power plants many years ago in Japan, the government assured the public that they were 100% safe. But now, people no longer believe that. Clear explanations of risk are important.

VIGDIS: Indeed, we need to acknowledge the risk. It’s the same with gasoline and the risk of fire and explosions. But it should also be acknowledged that hydrogen has an extra challenge due to this, let’s say, bad reputation.

HISAO: Yes, there are still many challenges to be addressed, such as conducting a thorough review of regulations. Currently, the codes and standards are not optimised, which means they can sometimes be overly conservative. That’s why we need to continue our research and focus on educating young researchers who have a comprehensive understanding of hydrogen embrittlement, strength design, and industry collaboration. These are all very important, but they take time.

And you’re optimistic?

VIGDIS: Yes, but we should not rush. We need more research and test results before we  go “full speed ahead”.